When I was involved in an in-person kinky community, I learned this lesson about the difference between being a Dom or a sub. I’ll share a scenario, you tell me who’s the Dom.
One person is sitting at the table. The other person carries over a plate with a beautiful array of small pastries for dessert. They set it down in front of the seated person before taking their own seatat the table. Who’s the Dom?
One person is playing with rope, wrapping it slowly and sensually around the other person. Who’s the Dom?
Of course, the correct answer is “You can’t tell.” In the first scenario, the sub may be serving the Dom dessert. Or the Dom may be bringing the sub dessert that they’re not allowed to eat or even touch without permission. In the rope scenario, the Dom could be using their rope skills on the sub, or maybe the Dom loves the feel of rope and the sub is obediently serving them by learning to use rope in a way that is pleasing.
This question came up the other day: What is the best way for a Dom to fuck his sub? The only correct answer, of course, is: Any way he wants!
So when we consider Who’s the greedy one, as Jon Grey does in his new blog, or Is submission a gift, as Willie and I chat about in recent comments, or the fine lines of topping from the bottom, or bottoming from the top that the Accidental Masturbator mentions… D/s twists and turns, it creates dichotomies, leads you off in one direction, then turns back on itself, spinning the story around and around.
In Slave Girl of Gor, there is a segment that happens after she has been forced to submit. It goes something like this:
They are in the desert, far from any civilized area. That night, she is bound at night to a stake in the ground (or something) which prevents her from leaving her tent. At first, she wonders why they would even need to keep her from leaving when there is clearly no where to go. But then she feels, for the first time, the fierce longing to give herself and be taken by her Master, and she realizes that she is not chained to keep her from escaping. She’s been bound to keep her from approaching the men in the night, to keep her from disturbing their sleep to satisfy her own need.
You may have heard me tell that story before, it haunts me a bit because I understand it. The power of sexual energy is fierce. There is a myth in our culture that men are the ones who are obsessed with sex, or that the Dominants, male or female, are the ones who generate and control that power. But once that sexuality has been unleashed in the female, or the submissive, it is fierce. Uncontrolled, it can be a raging fire and is practically unquenchable.
The dominant tempers it, like iron on the anvil; shapes it like clay on the potter’s wheel, or weaves it like wool on the loom. But the submissive isn’t iron or clay or wool – the submissive is very much a person. Sometimes a person with a lot of drive to serve, to please, to take care of – and perhaps to control. Does the dominant end up working long hours to master the iron? If they don’t, will the submissive get out of control? Then is the sub making their Dom manage them?
Ooof. Do you see what I mean about the twists and turns? In D/s it is all played out in the most concrete, physical way possible. Whips and chains and ropes, obedience and punishment, pleasing and serving – those are all demonstrated physically and experienced viscerally.
Ok. Enough philosophical musing. But a submissive woman without a Dom may end up in a series of unhappy relationships where she can’t get her needs met because her boyfriend is confused and frustrated, never understanding the way that she might thrive under his control and guidance. Or she may shut down her sexuality altogether and live a mundane and unsatisfying life (at least in part.).
I believe that there is an alchemy that can happen between sub and Dom, expressed in the mundane rules, obedience, punishment, pleasure and pleasing. I believe that in the process there is the potential for spiritual transformation that allows us to align our thoughts, feelings, and actions with our highest and most authentic self.
Or maybe not. Who knows?
Olivia 
First, thanks for the link.
Second, you are, as usual, right that there is an alchemy that takes place between the two. It is so very powerful, so very fulfilling, and so very addicting that I’ve yet to find anything that compares. A simple example would be the rush of pleasure. A dom receives it when a submissive calls him Sir and means it. A sub receives when a dom, even not her own, tells her she is a Good Girl and means it. Give and take to each of their delight.
I always love reading the thoughts and understandings of submissives. It is a stupid dom that doesn’t think they can learn more. I look forward the discussion this sparks.
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Thanks so much for your comment!
I agree, the magic of the connection is real. I might disagree about the value of a “good girl” from just any Dom, but that may just be me. A “good girl,” from a Dom I respect and want to please, is a real rush of pleasure and worth a lot.
And really, doesn’t the magic happen in the back and forth between the two? As they learn form each other? I’m excited about this discussion too. 💜
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At the risk of it looking like a gang up , I agree! A good girl holds zero weight for me if it is not from someone I respect *or* if it comes off as out of character for the person. Honestly “good girl” does not sound right coming from B. It’s not an expression he authentically uses. He may say he’s proud of me or whatever but good girl doesn’t fit us. That being said, I have been told that by others I’m close to and it does warm the heart.
But….many a sub does like to hear it from others regardless! I’m just not one .
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Yeah, one of the lovely things about submissives is that we can feel all kinds of different ways! No one can assume that all subs want this or that. Thanks Willie!! 💜
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I can say without any desire to ‘pile on’ that getting a “good girl” from a male Dom would be pretty insulting, actually piss me off, and likely result in at least a nasty retort. 😉 LOL
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Thanks, KD, that’s the compete other end of the continuum – from submissives who like a “good girl” from pretty much any dom to your reaction. Thanks.
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ohhh lots to think about in a Sunday afternoon . I will be back ( you have been warned lol) Quickly I will say I failed the answer to the first 2 questions – I’m not alarmed however as I was reading them through my own eyes. Meh, it’s not like I was in a chatroom discussion 🤣
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It IS a lot to think about, and I’m delighted that you’re pondering it. ROFL at “Meh, it’s not like I was in a chatroom discussion.” Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. 💜
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D/s is a beautiful dance between Dom and submissive. While there is an emphasis on power exchange in these connections, like any relationship, the needs/wants of either person is sometimes the driving force. I do believe that submission is a beautiful gift to a dominant heart, but I also believe that dominance is a gift to the submissive heart. There are times when I am in the presence of a dominant man and his attention brings me a small thrill, even if he is a total stranger to me or is a Dom that I don’t belong to. In those situations, his dominance is a gift that brightens my day. I do believe that my experiences in a D/s dynamic have helped me to grow and to understand myself better, and have helped me to feel more comfortable living as my authentic self. YES, I am a submissive girl who thrives on the attention of a dominant man…a man who wants to guide me, love me, hold me accountable, and who will spank me when I let myself down. And I am GOOD with that. Great post, olivia ❤
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Yes, I would agree. D/s is a dance and there is give in take, and (to add a thought) generally one person leads and the other follows. I agree too that it is a gift on both ends, at least some of the time, and maybe a burden on both ends at other times.
Yikes, i keep reading and just keep agreeing. Attention from an interesting Dom is a gift. And D/s definitely has helped me grow too – and continues to spark me in all kinds of ways. It’s nice to find so much agreement with you. I was just thinking today about the sisterhood of subs, so to speak, and how glad I am that youall are here. 💜
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Where to begin? I did find that the ability to be a sexual being came from living a D/s lifestyle. Living the dynamic 24/ 7 as a married couple, I believe the sexual freedom was directly tied to the release of self .
D/s gave me the opportunity to come out from behind that wall, or as many say, peel back the layers of the onion ( which is probably more appropriate in my case as I shed many a tear in my self discovery). The more I neared my authentic core, the freer I became – an actual weight was lifted from me. I believe this level of authenticity and subsequent vulnerability allowed me to feel more deeply, empathize more readily and be in tune with myself, including my sexuality.*
Dominant men or before I found this life, Alfa men have always felt like a safe zone for me ( fyi dominant women, not at all ). I wouldn’t say I needed to be tied to a post in the middle of the desert because interaction with them had the same results as they do with B.
When I experience a dominant exchange with others, I still do feel those walls have come down, or thinned and I become more vulnerable and authentic in my day, but there is no sexual drive associated with that. Definitely a softness about me, but I think it’s more out of the exchange of understanding between two people who see each other on some level- a brief interaction, even if it’s subconsciously, of souls who realize it’s okay to be themselves. Who doesn’t want to be seen on such a personal level?
For me, ropes, clamps, paddles etc ..help bring those walls down- to a degree. But if there is no connection, or the authenticity with or from the other side of the slash, it can be a fleeting or even a disastrous result. I don’t want B to interact with me on a physical level if he doesn’t want to. I don’t need him to tell me to do something I have asked him to. It doesn’t work for me to ask him to hold me accountable for certain things, it has to come from him or I feel I own it. I feel there is a lack of authenticity on his part and it’s not an exchange of power, even if it has me submitting to a punishment because I have failed. It’s odd really because I was the one who asked to take this journey years ago. But it did take years before the depths of this life were felt deep in my bones. In those years B found his authenticity and I think that is what made all the difference.
(* I think in my case this is where the “greed” has come into play- the exchanges between us allowed me to get closer to my authentic core, a place I loved getting to- so I wanted more of everything I felt help me get there).
Still thinking on the rest – I could be back. Lol
Waiting anxiously to see what you have to say.
willie
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I think you describe this beautifully, Willie. This makes so much sense. I think – at least if I understand what you’re saying – that D/s did open you to your own freedom of sexuality, but that it happened by allowing you to peel back the layers of the onion and be authentic and vulnerable. I think there’s a connection between those things, I mean, I think you’re saying that too.
Yes, for your Dom/husband to do whips and ropes and chains NOT from his own authentic space and his own sense of power, then it doesn’t. have that impact. I wonder now if this is part of what slave shae means when she talks about her slavery not being role-playing.
And I agree so much with what you say about where the greed comes into it. At least from my perspective, in my real life, I definitely crave the authenticity and vulnerability – and love when it can be expressed in deeply vulnerable submissive ways.
I hope this makes sense to you!! And thank you for being here, for commenting and sharing your views! 💜
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I don’t usually read slave shae so I cannot say for sure if that is what she means. I can say from my own experiences with B I can definitely tell when he is doing something out of obligation to his position vs when he is truly invested because of a need or desire. The former does feel like role playing .
That being said, at the very start of our dynamic, I was too engrossed in all these new experiences and emotions to see, understand, care? Lol
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Yeah, I don’t know if that’s really what she means other. But I couldn’t agree more about the difference between when it’s authentic and when it isn’t. 💜
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“Sometimes a person with a lot of drive to serve, to please, to take care of – and perhaps to control. Does the dominant end up working long hours to master the iron? If they don’t, will the submissive get out of control? Then is the sub making their Dom manage them?”
In my experience, once the depths of submission have be authenticated by the Dom in the dynamic, it is very difficult for the sub not to go deeper. Not to want more, and when the more does not happen, there can be a breakdown.
Simply put, often a door to greater submission has been opened and the sub has all this submissive energy that needs to go somewhere. Sometimes this means they need reassurance that there will be continuity in the dynamic. Sometimes it means they need reassurance that whatever they just endured, experienced either physically or emotionally, what have you, has been seen by their dominant in a significant way and how his/her dominance has affected the sub.
In my case, if I did not feel that I would drop. And some forms of a sub drop are anything but submissive! There is a reassurance that needs to happen in the minutes, hours, days after such a deep connection, that has nothing to do with a blanket, chocolate and a bottle of water 🤣.
The unsettling truth in this however is that often a Dom will not be able to see when some exchange has affected his sub so deeply, because it isn’t always about a grand gesture. And it’s difficult for the sub as well because they may react differently to the same stimuli each time.
Believe it or not, ( as I do tend to ramble don’t I ? Lol) I hold my emotions and self close. I tend to need a fire lit under me before I say how I really feel. This is not exactly ideal for a sub. A hurt sub can appear to be an angry sub, because that is often the only way they can ACTUALLY say what they feel. Holding emotions in, as B constantly says is a form of control in his mind. In my heart, it is keeping the millions of cracks I feel from shattering apart during those times. One would argue that is control and that a sub should shatter if need be before their Dom, but if the exchange is felt on different levels already between them, that is the challenge.
On a more surface interpretation, I do/did struggle with the action/ reaction of who’s in control when a sub misbehaves and a Dom has to react. On a personal level, the misbehaving happens because of emotional instability. I am guarding myself from my submissive feelings by not being submissive, more than I am testing B. Once I realized that, it wasn’t the same view of control I once had.
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Honestly, Willie, this is all so well-said, I really appreciate it. I feel like I could just say YES and let that be my response. But let me see if I can go a step further. I think the D/s combination relies on the submissive energy to go deeper, and that when that energy isn’t used, it is just like you describe.
AND you’re so right about Doms not always realizing the impact they have. And so much can go wrong in those moments when the sub is having a strong reaction and the Dom is oblivious to it. The struggle about whether to express that or not is real.
Thank you, Willie, for sharing all this. You, much more than I, have a clear idea of what a long term D/s relationship is like, and I love hearing your thoughts.
💜
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Nicely observed and described. The unfortunate reality is that people are rarely on the same page and even if they are, struggle to stay there. In ‘No Exit’ Sartre portrays this magnificently. And this is not limited to kink. It is the way things are in relationships of all kinds and flavors.
I have found that there are a few ways to go because of this. You can put in a LOT of work to try to get the nuanced criteria that scratch the itches, realizing that even Herculean efforts may not pay off, or one can ‘dumb down’ and just accept what they can with lowered expectations. Neither is ideal and I prefer the first……though it can be wearying and frustrating.
However, if lucky, I have found you can manage to get some nice bursts and surprises. The trick is just not expecting them all the time. I guess the Stones observed this best when they sung, “You can’t always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you get what you need.”
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I think you’re probably right, KD. We can’t hit that same note over and over. I read No Exit when I was quite young and it had a tremendous impact on me. At the same time, i think the submissive heart refuses to accept that as reality.
And yes, that makes sense – the Stones were right. And I’m appreciative of the times that I do get what I need! I try not to take them for granted.
Thanks for your comment! 💜
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Thoughtful, provoking and provocative. Thank you.
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Thank you!! Feel free to come back and share your thoughts.
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I love this discussion. I don’t feel “ganged up” on in any way. It should have been made more clear that I had meant the exchange will only happen with a dom that is respected or cared for or both. I will also add and agree as KD pointed out that there are always differences in everyone.
One thing that can be safely said is a D/s dynamic is never boring if it is running correctly. I will also emphasize what I wrote on my blog which is a D/s dynamic is always a work-in-progress like any relationship. It takes give-and-take in kink and in vanilla ways for both. I do enjoy the diversity of opinion and people you have garnered here, Olivia.
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